Josh
Added to listYoung Adultwith 14 books.
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As one of the most well regarded hard Science Fiction written in the last decade I was quite excited to read this. In some ways it lived up to those lofty expectations and in others it didn't. I quite enjoyed the themes of the book. Those centering around Science, religion, and human nature. The first and third being the stronger themes in my opinion.
I was invested in the book from the start, because the backdrop of the first chapters it that of the Chinese revolution. I absolutely love historical fiction so this was an unexpected bonus. In the middle of the book the author lays out a vision for the Three-Body Problem. I don't want to spoil anything, but suffice to say I found both the visual representation painted and the Science presented very compelling and at this point I was absolutely hooked...or so I thought.
In the latter chapters of the book they are almost entirely an info dump that personally I found very hard to follow. Not just because the concepts themselves are advanced, but because there's just so much information being presented in a short time. This left me with a rather sour taste in my mouth at the book ending. While it ends on hopeful note, this did little to alleviate the disinterest the handful of chapters previously had brought about. Still not enough to damper the joy I had with reading about the actual Three-Body Problem.
The biggest issue I have with the book though isn't specific to any one part of the novel but rather it's the characterization. The characters come across as very flat and devoid of emotion for the most part. I can understand why the author chose the particular style he did in 3rd person, but for someone who is as character driven as they are story driven, it leaves something to be desired to say the least. Characters and even prose suffering in hard Science is not unusual. Often times it feels like the scientific ideas take front and center over everything else. That's something I do think this novel runs into as well.
It's definitely good enough that I'll be checking out the next book in the trilogy at least, but with as praised as it is within the Sci-Fi community, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed.
As one of the most well regarded hard Science Fiction written in the last decade I was quite excited to read this. In some ways it lived up to those lofty expectations and in others it didn't. I quite enjoyed the themes of the book. Those centering around Science, religion, and human nature. The first and third being the stronger themes in my opinion.
I was invested in the book from the start, because the backdrop of the first chapters it that of the Chinese revolution. I absolutely love historical fiction so this was an unexpected bonus. In the middle of the book the author lays out a vision for the Three-Body Problem. I don't want to spoil anything, but suffice to say I found both the visual representation painted and the Science presented very compelling and at this point I was absolutely hooked...or so I thought.
In the latter chapters of the book they are almost entirely an info dump that personally I found very hard to follow. Not just because the concepts themselves are advanced, but because there's just so much information being presented in a short time. This left me with a rather sour taste in my mouth at the book ending. While it ends on hopeful note, this did little to alleviate the disinterest the handful of chapters previously had brought about. Still not enough to damper the joy I had with reading about the actual Three-Body Problem.
The biggest issue I have with the book though isn't specific to any one part of the novel but rather it's the characterization. The characters come across as very flat and devoid of emotion for the most part. I can understand why the author chose the particular style he did in 3rd person, but for someone who is as character driven as they are story driven, it leaves something to be desired to say the least. Characters and even prose suffering in hard Science is not unusual. Often times it feels like the scientific ideas take front and center over everything else. That's something I do think this novel runs into as well.
It's definitely good enough that I'll be checking out the next book in the trilogy at least, but with as praised as it is within the Sci-Fi community, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed.
For book two in the series my criticisms of the previous book largely apply here as well but to a lesser degree. There are still info dumps, but they are less frequent and are not quite as long winded as in the previous book. The ending in particular in this go around is written in a much better and easier to understand way while still getting the pertinent information out.
The characters still are not the strong point of the novel, however several of them do feel a bit more fleshed out than previous iterations. Zhang Beihai and Dai Shi in particular being two I enjoyed. It's still very much a series of big ideas and little characters though. Common enough in hard sci-fi and while there's nothing inherently wrong with it, my preferences typically don't lean this way.
Not everything is improved though. Where the first novel did have significant female characters, this one really doesn't. Not only does it forgo the stronger female character but it takes two steps back in many ways for the females that do exist. Luo Ji's storyline in particular, just struck me as extremely odd. Keeping away from spoilers, I can only say that it's very creepy and there are some tropes present that I was uncomfortable with as they do dip into sexist territory imo. This can work if there's a compelling reason for it or if there's repercussions for characters attitudes, but neither are true in this case. It doesn't add anything to the novel and it's not important to the little characterization that does exist. So that was a bit off putting.
After slogging through the first 200 pages, the book really opens up. It deals with some of the same themes as the previous novel, minus religion, as the ETO is largely gone from the novel. Watching humans teeter between defeatism, escapism, and triumphalism was very compelling to read through out parts 2 and 3. It's often very bleak, but in a way that you could see playing out to some degree in real life. It's that balance that is just very intriguing to me and kept me glued from part 2 onwards. And the Dark Forest itself tied everything up beautifully and that theory just on it's own provides so much to think about.
It's not without it's flaws, but if you can make it through the first 200 pages, it's definitely a hell of a ride.
For book two in the series my criticisms of the previous book largely apply here as well but to a lesser degree. There are still info dumps, but they are less frequent and are not quite as long winded as in the previous book. The ending in particular in this go around is written in a much better and easier to understand way while still getting the pertinent information out.
The characters still are not the strong point of the novel, however several of them do feel a bit more fleshed out than previous iterations. Zhang Beihai and Dai Shi in particular being two I enjoyed. It's still very much a series of big ideas and little characters though. Common enough in hard sci-fi and while there's nothing inherently wrong with it, my preferences typically don't lean this way.
Not everything is improved though. Where the first novel did have significant female characters, this one really doesn't. Not only does it forgo the stronger female character but it takes two steps back in many ways for the females that do exist. Luo Ji's storyline in particular, just struck me as extremely odd. Keeping away from spoilers, I can only say that it's very creepy and there are some tropes present that I was uncomfortable with as they do dip into sexist territory imo. This can work if there's a compelling reason for it or if there's repercussions for characters attitudes, but neither are true in this case. It doesn't add anything to the novel and it's not important to the little characterization that does exist. So that was a bit off putting.
After slogging through the first 200 pages, the book really opens up. It deals with some of the same themes as the previous novel, minus religion, as the ETO is largely gone from the novel. Watching humans teeter between defeatism, escapism, and triumphalism was very compelling to read through out parts 2 and 3. It's often very bleak, but in a way that you could see playing out to some degree in real life. It's that balance that is just very intriguing to me and kept me glued from part 2 onwards. And the Dark Forest itself tied everything up beautifully and that theory just on it's own provides so much to think about.
It's not without it's flaws, but if you can make it through the first 200 pages, it's definitely a hell of a ride.
While this was a very fast read, I'd be hard pressed to recommend it to anyone. You have subplot after subplot that have nothing to do with the main plot. You'd think like most mysteries maybe they're there to misdirect, but you'd think wrong.
The ending is completely shoehorned in and one of the most contrived I can recall in recent memory. The novel is essentially nothing more than the serial killer you didn't see coming and only leaves you asking ‘why' to so many things.
The characters also suffer from the same type of shoehorning. The main character is a group therapist, but yet there are no boundaries you'd associate with therapy or even interactions that would remind you of therapy. Instead there is a massive amount of projection and inappropriate behavior from the main character that one would not expect from a professional. I understand an author is not necessarily an expert in the fields their characters are employed in, but there should be enough knowledge so the reader doesn't have to completely suspend disbelief. And given the huge role psychology plays in the book, you just expect something more then what felt like the depth of an intro to psychology clause.
None of the other characters are much better mind you so suffice to say I found it disappointing on nearly every level.
While this was a very fast read, I'd be hard pressed to recommend it to anyone. You have subplot after subplot that have nothing to do with the main plot. You'd think like most mysteries maybe they're there to misdirect, but you'd think wrong.
The ending is completely shoehorned in and one of the most contrived I can recall in recent memory. The novel is essentially nothing more than the serial killer you didn't see coming and only leaves you asking ‘why' to so many things.
The characters also suffer from the same type of shoehorning. The main character is a group therapist, but yet there are no boundaries you'd associate with therapy or even interactions that would remind you of therapy. Instead there is a massive amount of projection and inappropriate behavior from the main character that one would not expect from a professional. I understand an author is not necessarily an expert in the fields their characters are employed in, but there should be enough knowledge so the reader doesn't have to completely suspend disbelief. And given the huge role psychology plays in the book, you just expect something more then what felt like the depth of an intro to psychology clause.
None of the other characters are much better mind you so suffice to say I found it disappointing on nearly every level.
This is a grimdark novel so you get the things associated with that like violence and morally ambiguous characters. It's not overly dark though and part of this is because Abercrombie's writing style is layered with wit and sarcasm which adds an element of amusement that lightens things up.
As far as a story though there really isn't one...at all. The first novel is basically a 501 page introduction to the characters. You get their motivations, their personalities, and so on. Basically everything that makes them tick. This is obviously an intentional choice by the author and while I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it, even as a person who enjoys character driven narratives, I still found myself wishing for a bit more story wise. Ultimately though that's going to come down to a matter of preference.
Going back to the characters, I would say this is the strength of the book. I mean it better be if you're using your entire book as a intro to the series. You have a good variety of characters and I enjoyed most of them. I'm a sucker for wit, sarcasm, and cynical characters and this book has those in spade. Sand Dan Glokta in particular with his sardonic attitude greatly amused me at times, while at others I found him absolutely repulsive.
It's a similar story with the other characters where at times their personality resonates with you, but at others you realize they're heavily flawed and a times to put it bluntly, assholes. The nuance there makes for very compelling character writing which was enough to immerse me in this book. So much so that even without a story I thoroughly enjoyed myself.
This is a grimdark novel so you get the things associated with that like violence and morally ambiguous characters. It's not overly dark though and part of this is because Abercrombie's writing style is layered with wit and sarcasm which adds an element of amusement that lightens things up.
As far as a story though there really isn't one...at all. The first novel is basically a 501 page introduction to the characters. You get their motivations, their personalities, and so on. Basically everything that makes them tick. This is obviously an intentional choice by the author and while I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it, even as a person who enjoys character driven narratives, I still found myself wishing for a bit more story wise. Ultimately though that's going to come down to a matter of preference.
Going back to the characters, I would say this is the strength of the book. I mean it better be if you're using your entire book as a intro to the series. You have a good variety of characters and I enjoyed most of them. I'm a sucker for wit, sarcasm, and cynical characters and this book has those in spade. Sand Dan Glokta in particular with his sardonic attitude greatly amused me at times, while at others I found him absolutely repulsive.
It's a similar story with the other characters where at times their personality resonates with you, but at others you realize they're heavily flawed and a times to put it bluntly, assholes. The nuance there makes for very compelling character writing which was enough to immerse me in this book. So much so that even without a story I thoroughly enjoyed myself.
Quite an enjoyable book although not always the easiest to read. It can be violent, bleak, and quite dark at times although not without purpose. I wanted to point out something I appreciated from the start though, so on a bit of a tangent!
I was hooked to this book almost immediately and the reason for this is how it displays mandatory training. It reminds me a lot of basic training. Exaggerated and embellished of course, but if someone had told me Hurley had been in the military I wouldn't have batted an eye. What do I mean? Small things, for example, the mantra's about killing they yell out during bayonet training are very similar to some of the same things you will say in boot camp. The Drill Sergeant will yell things like “What makes the grass grow green” the response of course “blood, blood, bright red blood”. “Who are we?” “The Quick.” “Who are they?” “The dead”. The dead being figurative here as this was actually before Iraq or Afghanistan, but I digress.
She even writes about that burning desire to be praised and recognized by the very people yelling at you and making you do push up's. There's enough element of truth to what Dietz is saying and experiencing during said training, that I instantly understand and have an immediate connection with the character.
Moving on though, overall I quite enjoyed the journey. I like the theme's it brings up about war, power, governance, and the power of the people. None of this is new and you can find many stories like this out there, but not every book needs to re-invent the wheel. Sometimes it's enough to add something to existing theme's and execute on it well and that's what we have here.
My biggest complaints I suppose is outside Dietz I don't have any attachments to any characters. Some people die...it's war obviously...but I don't really feel much outside of how it effects Dietz, because I don't ever feel like they're really that important. The other complaint and the main one is that the ending is kind of...well for lack of the better word lame. I would certainly have liked something a bit different in that regard, but while cliche, sometimes it is true that it's the journey and not the destination. Last bit will be in a spoiler even though not integral to the story it's something I certainly missed.
When I was reading this book I thought Dietz was male. It's never stated that they were male, they have relationships with both sexes through the story, so it begs the question why I thought that. Could write a paper on that likely, but I appreciate that the book caused that kind of reflection without it feeling unnatural or shoehorned in.
Quite an enjoyable book although not always the easiest to read. It can be violent, bleak, and quite dark at times although not without purpose. I wanted to point out something I appreciated from the start though, so on a bit of a tangent!
I was hooked to this book almost immediately and the reason for this is how it displays mandatory training. It reminds me a lot of basic training. Exaggerated and embellished of course, but if someone had told me Hurley had been in the military I wouldn't have batted an eye. What do I mean? Small things, for example, the mantra's about killing they yell out during bayonet training are very similar to some of the same things you will say in boot camp. The Drill Sergeant will yell things like “What makes the grass grow green” the response of course “blood, blood, bright red blood”. “Who are we?” “The Quick.” “Who are they?” “The dead”. The dead being figurative here as this was actually before Iraq or Afghanistan, but I digress.
She even writes about that burning desire to be praised and recognized by the very people yelling at you and making you do push up's. There's enough element of truth to what Dietz is saying and experiencing during said training, that I instantly understand and have an immediate connection with the character.
Moving on though, overall I quite enjoyed the journey. I like the theme's it brings up about war, power, governance, and the power of the people. None of this is new and you can find many stories like this out there, but not every book needs to re-invent the wheel. Sometimes it's enough to add something to existing theme's and execute on it well and that's what we have here.
My biggest complaints I suppose is outside Dietz I don't have any attachments to any characters. Some people die...it's war obviously...but I don't really feel much outside of how it effects Dietz, because I don't ever feel like they're really that important. The other complaint and the main one is that the ending is kind of...well for lack of the better word lame. I would certainly have liked something a bit different in that regard, but while cliche, sometimes it is true that it's the journey and not the destination. Last bit will be in a spoiler even though not integral to the story it's something I certainly missed.
When I was reading this book I thought Dietz was male. It's never stated that they were male, they have relationships with both sexes through the story, so it begs the question why I thought that. Could write a paper on that likely, but I appreciate that the book caused that kind of reflection without it feeling unnatural or shoehorned in.
